***************** 1 July 2024 Hi Duane and Thom, After I heard about the Single Pair Ethernet (SPE) I went down the rabbit hole to find out as much as possible about it. I would like to have this in the vehicle because we would get rid of our dedicated GBE cables and have more flexibility for future things like TRN running from the MVC. It seems this is still pretty bleeding edge and we have to verify this will actually work for us. It seems the realistic max cable length is 25m (advertised are 40) which is fine for the in-vehicle bus but not enough to make it through one of our tethers (I have some ideas about that though). However, there does not seem to be a big supply of SPE switches around at this point and none I could find was actually what we would want, which is 2 SPE ports for bus-in and bus-out and then 2-4 normal ports for the devices in the sphere. So I think we have to build this ourselves (but someone should have a look if I missed something). There are a few companies offering PHYs for this. The easiest to deal with seems to be this: https://www.ti.com/product/DP83TG720S-Q1 There are even demo board available that I will probably buy 2 of when I get back to do some cable length experiments. However, the issue with these is that they only do 1GB/s and not 100MB/s, which could be an issue (rather have a slow link when the cable gets bad vs. no link). If you want dual speed, the only PHYs I could find are these: Broadcom BCM89883/4 Marvell 88Q2112-A2 Realtek RTL9010AA The problem with all of them is that there is no info available and that I don't know how you even buy the chips. It might be worth requesting a quote from Digikey (which is a Broadcom distributor) to see if they sell us 10 and give us datasheets. For the switch ICs there is also a bit of research to be done. Microchip makes a bunch of different switches but most of them already have PHYs so we can't use them because we need to put in the SPE PHYs. However, to save dev time it would probably be best to find a switch IC that has 2 MAC ports for custom PHYs and then 2-4 ports with PHYs. There are a lot of options with 1 MAC port but we need at least 2. NXP does have a few switch ICs that have only MAC ports, that would be the fallback solution and we would just have to get a few 10/100/1000 normal Ethernet PHYs to connect to the other port. I will talk to each of you directly about this but I just wanted to give some info that might be useful. Thanks Erik 2 July 2024 Hi Duane and Thom, Duane, do you think you have bandwidth for working on this a bit with Thom being able to help out if you get stuck? Here is what I think we should do: 1.) research if there are some switches already available that have at least 2 SPE 1GB ports and 2-4 normal GBE ports (don't be surprised if you can't find anything). If no suitable switch is found we have to make one ourselves. 2.) research parts for SPE switch: - need to find switch IC that is low power and has ideally 2 MAC ports and 2-4 ports that already have a PHY (Microchip does have a few with 1 MAC port, maybe they have one with 2) - if you can't find that, find a switch IC that only has MAC ports (like these: https://www.nxp.com/products/product-selector:PRODUCT-SELECTOR?category=c704_c1494_c1510) - find a suitable SPE PHY, see if we can get that Broadcom part somehow but if not, I think we just go with the TI PHY and maybe in a year or two something better will come out - study the demo boards for the PHY to see how to integrate them. It does look fairly straight forward, important things are: keep traces for MAC lines short, needs controlled impedance, need to be same length - make a schematic and a board I see this as a filler project to work on when there is nothing more important going on. There is no immediate time pressure on this, I just think we should try to gather knowledge about this and hopefully can upgrade the the vehicles with this at some point in the future. Thanks Erik **************************** 2 July 2024 There is Weidmuller ( Single Pair Ethernet Multi-Drop switch with three SPE ports and two RJ-45 ports) who announced a product in Dec 2023. https://www.weidmuller.com/en/solutions/technologies/single_pair_ethernet/index.jsp https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kH9iun41rg The SPE alliance product database might help, but does not seem to be comprehensive. https://www.single-pair-ethernet.com/en/spe-product-database I'd also recommending looking at TI or MicroChip to see if they have an eval board I can help after proposals are in. -Thom Maughan ********************************** 13 July 2024 Emailed Digikey re: Broadcom BCM89883/4 Requested info from Marvell re: Marvell 88Q2112-A2 Requested infr from microchip.com re: switch with 1 MAC ports and 2-4 ports with PHY ************************************ 18 July 2024 Requested RTL9010AA datasheet from Sierra IC Inc ************************************ 5 Sept 2024 Email from ETR: Hi Duane, here are some pointers for the switch design: Eval board that has 100MBit SPE and 2x 1GB Eth: https://www.nxp.com/design/design-center/development-boards-and-designs/automotive-development-platforms/hardware-tools-and-accessories/mpc574xb-c-g-and-sja1105p-q-r-s-gateway-evaluation-kit:SJA1105SMBEVM Schematics: https://www.nxp.com/webapp/Download?colCode=SJA1105SMBEVM-SCHEMATICS Layout: https://www.nxp.com/webapp/Download?colCode=SJA1105SMBEVM-LAYOUT Eval board with 100Mbit Eth and 4x 100Mbit SPE but which has DSN resources: https://www.nxp.com/design/design-center/development-boards-and-designs/automotive-development-platforms/s32k-mcu-platforms/s32k344-wb-evaluation-board-for-automotive-general-purpose:S32K344-WB Schematics: https://www.nxp.com/webapp/Download?colCode=S32K344-WB-DESIGN-FILES The first one might be the better one to use since you can just 1:1 copy most of this design. The advantage of the second one is that the schematics look a bit more clear and easier to read but you would have to adjust for not having a direct example for 1GBE. Another advantage of the first design is that it uses RGMII instead of RMII on the latter one. This means, less traces are used for the interface between PHY and switch and we would want to go down this route anyway if we want to go through a connector at some point. It might be worth looking if there are any discrepancies between the two designs when it comes to the power supplies and power filtering but you can keep that as a lower priority task since I think each of the designs will probably just work fine. Erik ****************************** 6/7/8 Sept 2024 Block Diagram Extracted sch parts from schematic S32K344-WB_packrevc2_schematic.dsn: SJA1105S TJA1102 1 Make sch part KSZ9031RNX from eval board pdf SJA1105SMBEVM ?? What processor chip to use ?? 1 LT8614 Sch part Footprint 1 LTC3026EMSE Sch part Footprint 1 SJA1105 pinout issue SCH SJA1105SMBEVM Eval Board: P10 = VSS50 OrCAD part SJA1105QEL_BGA_15P: P10 = MII4_RX_CLK/RXC XXX WRONG PART Using OrCAD part SJA1105S ( pinout per NXP datasheet SJA11105R/S dated 1 Mar 2024, page 6 ) ************************** 9 Sept 2024 Schematic capture: power, switch *************************** 10 Sept 2024 Schematic capture: GIG E phy x0 Mag Jack schematic almost matches AR11-4647 but no footprint avail ? ************************** 11 Sept 2024 Mag Jack seems to be Taoglas TMJK071AWNL, same pinout, same graphic, 12 cores, No footprint avail, no graphic avail. Footprint matches AR11-4647, but no footprint avail. ************************** 12 Sept 2024 1 Create TMJK071AWNL sch part 1 Place TMJK071AWNL sch part in schematic ************************* 18 Sept 24 Backup sch ( 100222324_SINGLEPAIRETHERNET_18Sept24_1125.DSN ) prior to: 1 Make another sheet: GIG_E_PHY_KSZ9032_2 1 Edit signals: GIG_E_PHY_KSZ9032_2 ************************ 25 Sept 24 1 LPC11U68JBD48K: made sch part, added to sch page MPU 1 Create TMJK071AWNL footprint NOTE: Extracted footprints from pcb file: LAY-29859_D.brd Footprint "con_rj45_mag_led_geth.dra" has same dimensions as TMJK071AWNL, but several thru holes needed to be enlarged. It seems the PCB Editor 2023 can't use padstacks created in earlier versions, a cryptic error message advised using dbdoctor. Found the utility " PCB DB doctor 2023 " in folder Cadence PCB Utilities 2023. Ran the utility on (old) padstack 83c63d.pad, output (new) padstack C83D63.pad Also 60c40d.pad to C60D40.pad Was able to replace padstacks in the footprint file. *** OrCAD X 23.1S006 does not have menu item " Reports ... CIS Bill of Materials " *** Opened sch in Capture CIS 17.2-2016S059. BOM output works as expected. Made changes, close sch in 17.2, opened sch in X 23.1. Opens OK, changes were made OK. **************************** 6 Oct 2024 1 All sch parts stuffed w footprints and manuf, pt no, vendor, pt no BOM created "BOM_100222324_SinglePairEthernet_6Oct24_1037.xlsx" **************************** 8 October Netlisted, parts brought into " 100222324_SinglePairEthernet.brd " ************************* 21 Nov 2024 Phone convo w/ ETR: Want the PHY to be pluggable with connectors. Not sure how to accomplish. Search SAMTEC connectors. About 12 signals, power, etc. Use the smallest possible connector. ************************** 3 Dec 2024 Pluggable PHY possible connectors ---------------- Single SPE port ------------------- SPE_TJ1102 RMII-2 Unique Connections Pin Count | | Power VCC_1V8 1 3 VCC_3V3 2 3 VCC_12V0 3 3 GND_PWR 4 3 Signals SEC_RMII_2_REF_CLK 5 1 SEC_RMII_2_CRS_DV 6 1 SEC_RMII_2_RX_ER 7 1 SEC_RMII_2_RXD0 8 1 SEC_RMII_2_RXD1 9 1 SEC_RMII_2_TX_EN 10 1 SEC_RMII_2_TX_ER 11 1 SEC_RMII_2_TXD0 12 1 SEC_RMII_2_TXD1 13 1 Total Pin Count 21 ( use 22: 1 spare ) FTE-111-03-G-DV-A-P Male double row 11 pins each 0.8mm pitch, length 8.8mm (0.346 inch) CLE-111-01-G-DV-A Female mate --------------- Double SPE port -------------- SPE_TJ1102 RMII-2 Power VCC_3V3 1 VCC_12V0 2 GND_PWR 3 Signals SEC_RMII_2_REF_CLK 4 SEC_RMII_2_CRS_DV 5 SEC_RMII_2_RX_ER 6 SEC_RMII_2_RXD0 7 SEC_RMII_2_RXD1 8 SEC_RMII_2_TX_EN 9 SEC_RMII_2_TX_ER 10 SEC_RMII_2_TXD0 11 SEC_RMII_2_TXD1 12 <- for one SPE port SPE_TJ1102 RMII-3 SEC_RMII_3_REF_CLK 13 SEC_RMII_3_CRS_DV 14 SEC_RMII_3_RX_ER 15 SEC_RMII_3_RXD0 16 SEC_RMII_3_RXD1 17 SEC_RMII_3_TX_EN 18 SEC_RMII_3_TX_ER 19 SEC_RMII_3_TXD0 20 SEC_RMII_3_TXD1 21 <- for two SPE ports Samtec catalog F-219 ppg 304/305 FTE/CLE Series FTE-125-01-G-DV-ES-A-P Male double row 25 pins each 0.8mm pitch, length 20mm (0.787 inch) CLE-125-01-G-DV-A-P Female double row 25 pins each 0.8mm pitch, length 20mm (0.787 inch) -------------- GIG E PHY connectors --------------- GIG E PHY KSZ9032 Power VCC_3V3 1 VCC_2V5 2 VCC_1V2 3 Signals SJA_P1_TX_CLK 4 SJA_P1_TXD0 5 SJA_P1_TXD1 6 SJA_P1_TXD2 7 SJA_P1_TXD3 8 SJA_P1_TX_EN 9 SJA_P1_RX_CLK 10 SJA_P1_RXD0 11 SJA_P1_RXD1 12 SJA_P1_RXD2 13 SJA_P1_RXD3 14 SJA_P1_RX_DV 15 GIG_PHY_1_3V3_RST 16 PHY_1_3V3_INT 17 PHY_MDC 18 PHY_MDIO 19 <- for one GIG E port FTE-125-01-G-DV-ES-A-P Male double row 25 pins each 0.8mm pitch, length 20mm (0.787 inch) CLE-125-01-G-DV-A-P Female double row 25 pins each 0.8mm pitch, length 20mm (0.787 inch)